‘I was scared’ – Carrim explains why he paid Hangwani Maumela on Matlala’s behalf

North West businessman Suliman Carrim has again claimed he was caught up in the friendship between two men, this time Hangwani Maumela and Vusimuzi ‘Cat’ Matlala.

On Monday, Carrim confirmed to the Madlanga commission his business relationship with Matlala connected to the R360 million South African Police Service (Saps) contract to provide medical services.

“Vusi and I agreed that if I advance R10 million, I would be paid an additional amount of R10 million over a three-year period. The repayment would be made at an equivalent of 10% of all payments received until the amount of R20 million was paid,” Carrim told the commission on Monday.

However, he has only received a net payment of R1.7 million from Matlala to date.

The commission has now found evidence that the net payment of R1.7 million was after Carrim was asked to pay Maumela R750 000.

Matlala and Maumela’s friendship

Carrim said that when he met Matlala, he was not aware of Matlala’s business relationship with Maumela. Maumela never discussed his relationship with Matlala, either.

“At that point, he [Matlala] didn’t disclose that to me. He [Maumela] never brought Mr Matlala up to me. At that point, I saw articles, but there was no direct link between them.

“When I concluded the agreement, or when we had the handshake with Mr Matlala in June, around August, I then asked Mr Maumela, look, you’ve never met Mr Matlala with me. Are you and Mr Matlala associates? What is the issue? He then said to me, yes, we are,” explained Carrim.

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“So I asked him, but you never told me this. He said, yeah, look, I don’t think it was important for you to have met this man through me. And that was his stance. He said, ‘Look, I didn’t want to introduce you to Mr Matlala’. I said, why? He just said, ‘No, I didn’t want to introduce you to Mr Matlala’.”

Carrim said Matlala and Maumela did not raise “how deep their relationship” was to him.

Carrim, Matlala and Maumela payments

The North West businessman said Maumela informed him that Matlala needed to pay him money and that it would be done through the North West businessman.

“They had an arrangement. I don’t know exactly what it was, but according to him, Mr Matlala needed to pay him. Either money is owed, or money is borrowed, I just can’t remember what it was.”

Carrim found out at the commission that during this time, Matlala exchanged messages with Carrim and forwarded them to Maumela.

“I have no idea why he’d do that. I have no idea. It’s the first time I’m seeing this. I don’t know why I would take my chats and pass them over to Mr Maumela,” said Carrim.

Why the middleman?

The commission grappled with why Maumela’s payment from Matlala had to go through Carrim, and why Carrim agreed to pay Maumela even when Matlala still owed him millions.

“He [Matlala] insisted, and I said to him on numerous occasions, ‘ You can do it yourself, you can pay this money. Why do you want me to pay this money?’ He said, ‘Look, you need to help me; you need to pay this money. I’m under pressure; I need to pay him this money.’ And that was the explanation that he gave me.

“I agree that, rightfully, Mr Matala had to pay him. But like I said, they put me under pressure for me to have paid him. So, in order for him [Matlala] to make me, force me to pay, he said to me, ‘There’s another R13 million going to be paid. So please, if you can pay this, I’ll see you good on the next payment.’ Because at that point, I was still asking him, why don’t you pay directly? You can’t pay directly. He said, ‘No, you must pay him. Please help me pay.’

‘I was scared’

Carrim said he paid Maumela the money despite his suspicions about his involvement in the process. He only paid because he wanted to stay in Matlala’s good books, so he could get all his money back.

“The suspicion was that why would he not pay directly? I just suspected between the two of them, why were they using me? They could have just dealt directly.”

He said he continued to pay Maumela money because he was “scared” after reading media reports about him and Matlala.

“I would also have been scared,” said evidence leader Matthew Chaskalson.

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